‘It’s a funny contrast,’ says famed sad girl Indigo De Souza ahead of show with Sylvan Esso

Indigo De Souza. // photo credit Angella Choe

Indigo De Souza makes tear-stained music for the saddies, for the pessimistic—or, maybe, realistic—people out there who wallow in despair over lost loves, icy friendships and the crushing weight of existing in a world run by institutions trying to keep you down. Sylvan Esso makes moody, textured synth-pop for the sweatiest on the dancefloor.

The two are not a natural pair, like a funeral wake and a wedding reception. But together, the acts—both hailing from North Carolina—serve as perfect counterparts, De Souza told me over the phone Thursday.

“They are amazing,” the Durham-based indie rock star of the tour-mates she will be playing with in Kansas City on Friday night. “I love the crowds that they bring out, and their show every night is so bright and fun and wonderful. I feel like my set—it’s a funny contrast, because I feel like my songs are kind of dark, and then they’re like really happy party songs.”

Though De Souza is technically the opener, the show set for 8 p.m. at The Midland has the feeling of a double-bill event, with the 26-year-old’s star rising with each successive album. Two years ago, she released her sophomore album, Any Shape You Take, a critical and commercial success stuffed with bruising observations and unforgettable lines and, occasionally, a triumphant groove that almost made everything feel uplifting. For this listener, the smooth and quietly propulsive “Hold You” has been a go-to source of serotonin, a love song about no one in particular that could be about anyone, or a community of people.

De Souza’s most recent album, All of This Will End, released on April 28, is her most hopeful, its cover — drawn by her mother, like with her previous two albums — dominated for the first time by warm colors like red and orange, showing an evening sunset in a cactus-dotted desert. There are still, of course, the little skeleton people with sunken holes for eyes. And there is still room in the songwriting for gut-punching lines like, “And I’m not sure what is wrong with me, but it’s probably just hard to be a person feeling anything.”

Ahead of her show on Friday, The Pitch spoke with De Souza about the larger sound she created with this album, the “classic-sounding” songs she’s been writing on tour and the surreal experience of seeing a fan cry and scream when she paused to speak to her mid-show.

The Pitch: You did an interview with Them magazine, and they asked, “What’s the one thing you’re not asked that you wish you were asked more?” And you said you’d like to hear people’s reactions to music more and what it meant to them. So I can say that listening to this album, All of This Will End, I definitely felt big emotions. Some of the songs, like “You Can Be Mean” and “Losing,” I just related to and they made me feel emotional. But then there were songs that were so joyous — the song “The Water” I’ve been listening to a lot, because it actually makes me feel nostalgic. It reminds me of songs by bands from the 2010-era when I was in high school, like…Best Coast and Sleigh Bells and Surfer Blood and those kinds of bands. What is your reaction to my reaction? And what kind of things have you been hearing about this album?

Oh, well, what’s my reaction to your reaction?

What do you make of that, I guess.

Yeah, I do think the album is emotional. I’d have to agree. Yeah, I’m glad that that came through for you. And I am not familiar with any of the bands that you just said. 

Okay (laughs). 

That was interesting to me and I was like, “I’ll have to listen to that.” (laughs) But, yeah, I don’t know — there’s lots of different reactions to the album. I think that it’s always interesting to hear which songs stick out to people. I feel like not everybody that I talked to talks about “The Water” as much as other songs. I don’t know. There’s so many different reactions (laughs).

You’re good.

Yeah.

I was throwing a lot at you — I wanted to give you my honest reaction…So, can you speak briefly — I know you’ve talked about having more confidence with this record, and that resulting in maybe a slightly bigger, brighter sound, but also a really nice continuation from the last albums. Can you just talk about finding that sound for this record?

Yeah, I think it probably just has to do with changes in my life and in my body, but also in the people that I’m playing with. I feel like I’ve changed that formation around a lot. And also, when it comes to people that I’m bringing into the studio, I think that I just like to play with that formation and change it up, depending on the album or depending on what sound I’m trying to accomplish. And yeah, this album definitely had — a lot of my friend Dexter Webb’s brain went into it. Like all the crazy guitar playing is him. He has a really specific way of playing guitar that I love so much and it felt like it really worked for this album. 

But the overall feeling of it is — I don’t know…When I write songs, they come in these certain waves. Like, right now, I’ve been writing new songs for another album, and they’re all kind of easy listening, classic-sounding songs that sound very timeless, and I’ve been really loving writing songs that sound timeless. I haven’t even been meaning to do that, but just because that’s the wavelength I’m on, that’s what’s been happening. For this past album, the wavelength I was on was just very, like, chaotic but also had this through-line — this bright, very certain, very quick, to-the-point through-line, and I think it’s because I wrote most of them during the pandemic and I was alone and I was isolated and I was in this very strange kind of psychedelic mind space that brought me all that.

So do you welcome that wave whenever it comes, whether you’re on tour or taking a break?

Yeah. I mean, I don’t normally write when I’m on tour because it’s just really hard to find time. But yeah, I usually write when I am home, and I try to have a big break in between touring seasons. Like, after this tour, I’ll have probably — I’ll do some small tours, but I’ll have basically five months where there’s not a lot of touring so that I can work on music.

What has been the experience playing these shows with Sylvan Esso?

They are amazing. I love the crowds that they bring out and their show every night is so bright and fun and wonderful. I feel like my set — it’s a funny contrast, because I feel like my songs are kind of dark, and then they’re like really happy party songs. But yeah, I love Nick and Amelia. They live in Durham, which is only like four hours from me. And I actually recorded my last album, Any Shape You Take, mostly at their studio in Durham. And yeah, it just feels really special also to have — to be touring with fellow North Carolinians.

I know you’ve talked about nature being a big influence on this album, and nature inspiring you…and living in North Carolina being important to you and protecting it, even when policies and culture and some of those things aren’t to your liking or aren’t very good. I feel like that’s something that we can relate to here, whether you’re on the Kansas side of Kansas City or the Missouri side. What can we do, I guess — not that you have all the answers — but what can we be doing to protect nature, and what role can art play in that?

It’s a big question. 

I know (laughs). 

I feel like I barely know — I don’t. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m kind of a pessimist when it comes to that; it kind of feels like there’s not much we can do to save nature at this point, or like nature will just end up eating us alive at some point (laughs). But maybe not in our lifetime.

Yeah, we’ll see I guess.

Yeah, I don’t know. I think that just talking about it is probably one of the best things we can do or it feels — for me, it feels important to talk about it, especially because a lot of my audience are younger people. And so I am not blind to the fact that I have an influence because I have a voice. Anyone who has a voice has an influence. And I think often that is not taken seriously by a lot of people. Yeah, I don’t know. I really think about that with everything I say. I’m grateful for that space.

So obviously community has been a really big thing in your music, and I know that your mother — you give the idea to your mother for the album cover and then she will paint it. Is that right?

Yeah, I just explain to her the idea I’m having and then I sketch it out for her, and then she starts painting, sketching it out. And then she just checks in with me along the way while she’s doing it. And if there’s anything that’s glaring to me that I don’t like I’ll tell her, but most of the time I just — I think there’s only been like one time when that happened. She just rides along and does whatever she feels.

Well they’re beautiful album covers, all of them.

Thank you.

And then you have — your friends will be in music videos and help out, and I think I saw even that your mom helped design costumes. How important is that community to your music and how do you create community at your shows, with with the people who are taking in your music?

Community at home is, like, everything to me. Honestly, yeah, I don’t know — having really great community and having people around me that I love and love to create with and watch show up for and want to learn from and work with is a really beautiful thing, and it has really saved my life many times. 

And then, yeah, working on that music video — I think you’re talking about, “Younger and Dumber.” And then I also worked with my community on the other one, too, on, “Smog.” It was really special to — it’s just — it feels really good to do everything in-house in that way, instead of sourcing from random people that I don’t really know to be a part of something that is really important to me. It feels better to have people that are close to me doing things. And, then, with shows, it’s — I mean, it’s wild. Depending on the artists, you kind of know what their crowd is gonna be. Like, if you go to a Sylvan Esso show, you know that the crowd is probably going to be really excited and they’re gonna be dancing a lot and they’re gonna scream a lot and you know what they’re gonna be like, what their energy is, and it’s because each band brings out a specific kind of listener and I have just adored seeing the way that my listeners are just these really soft, sentimental, oftentimes very, like, sad, or heartbroken people (laughs) that I bring together because I am those things too, and they can feel that in my music so they end up coming to that room to be together, to watch me play the songs. And even just that in itself is community. 

But then, beyond that, I feel very honored that I get to talk to them through the internet, too; that’s been a really amazing thing for me, having an Instagram and being able to speak to everyone at once, and that feels like a community as well, because people are able to connect through online. It’s just all — it’s all special. And it’s wild. It’s wild that it happened to me (laughs).

Does this feel — you mentioned a lot of heartbroken people coming to your shows. And, like I said, I can relate to a lot of those songs. Did this record feel more optimistic to you at all?

Yeah, it definitely does, and it’s funny because I think it kind of did more when I first put it out, and then now that I’ve been playing it so many times, it’s started to feel a little bit darker. I think the lyrics — I think it just depends on where you are in your life. I’m kind of having a hard time right now in general with my mental health and it feels like because of that the songs actually sound darker to me. But when I first put the album out, I was like, “Whoo, this album is a breeze. It’s so happy and fun” (laughs). Yeah.

Well, I’ll let you go here in a minute; I know you’ve got a lot to do. Does the scene — the people in the crowd singing your songs — I know you’re on tour, you do a lot of shows. What is that like to take in that response from a crowd to this new music that you’re performing for the first time for these people?

I mean, it’s always just — it’s really kind of disorienting, and kind of never ceases to amaze me. Or, like, at this show the other day, I accidentally forgot the lyrics, which hasn’t happened in a while, but I just, like, left my body in the middle of a song and forgot the lyrics. There was this person in the front that seemed like they would know the lyrics because they were freaking out. So I asked them for the lyrics and then they couldn’t even respond to me because they were so overjoyed that I said something to them that they, like, started crying and screaming and they couldn’t respond to me (laughs). Yeah, that blew my mind for a second. I was like, “Oh, are they OK?” and then I just realized it was because I talked to them. I mean, that sort of thing — and people knowing the lyrics and…just the world that I have created growing more and more. I feel like I never really get used to that.

Indigo De Souza opens for Sylvan Esso at the Midland on Friday, August 18. Details on that show here.