2024 Missouri Senate Debate snaps a bleak image for the state’s future
2024 Missouri Senate Debate. // Photo Courtesy of Rudi Keller, Missouri Independent
Missouri U.S. Senate candidates met for a forum Friday afternoon in Springfield—sponsored by the Missouri Press Association. Present onstage were Republican U.S. Sen. Josh Hawley, Democratic candidate Lucas Kunce, Better Party candidate Jared Young, and Green Party candidate Nathan Kline.
Here are the takeaways from the debate—which was basically a heated feud between Kunce and Hawley, as the two third-party candidates faded into the background:
Abortion
Kline expressed the Green Party’s “pro-woman’s right to be in charge of her own body“ beliefs, while Young stated that he is pro-life and views each abortion as a tragedy but believes that the pro-life movement does itself a disservice by taking “all-or-nothing“ positions.
“Now, we’re in a position where Amendment 3, if it passes, is going to put us in a place that allows even more abortions than we had under Roe v. Wade, and so, I think, we need to find a place where we’re preventing as many abortions as possible, but we’re still leaving room for compromise,“ Young said.
Kunce slammed Hawley for wanting to override the will of Missouri voters by supporting a national abortion ban.
“As a U.S. Senator, I’m gonna promise you right now, I will codify Roe v. Wade because we can’t have no exceptions for rape and incest like Josh Hawley has put into play,“ Kunce said.
Hawley fired back by claiming he doesn’t support a national abortion ban but supports “reasonable“ restrictions like “partial-birth abortion like when the baby is capable of feeling pain.”
“What I will not support is imposing on the state of Missouri and all the other states abortion on demand through nine months with taxpayer funding,“ Hawley stated. “That’s what Lucas Kunce wants, that’s what the Democrats in Congress have repeatedly tried to force on us, and now they want to go further. In fact, Lucas Kunce and his allies want to go further. They are trying to change our constitution in this state this year to—not only on abortion but to overturn our ban in the state on transgender surgeries for minors. That’s on the ballot this fall; Lucas Kunce and his allies are supporting it. They talk about reproductive health, but what it really does is it allows transgender surgeries for minors without parental consent. I think it’s nuts, I think it’s absolutely crazy.”
Kunce fired back by calling Hawley out on his bullshit, referring to Hawley’s previous cosponsorship of a national abortion ban and explaining that Amendment 3, the amendment that would enshrine reproductive rights into the Missouri Constitution, doesn’t encompass “sex change surgeries.”
“He sees mandated sex change surgeries around every single corner because he thinks that he can rile people up that way and actually win the election,“ Kunce said. “It’s not true. What I see is people and women in this state who are smart enough to make their own decisions about how they build their families.”
Hawley accused Kunce of lying and reiterated his point about Amendment 3, claiming that the ACLU, the National Women’s Law Center, and Planned Parenthood have all said that reproductive healthcare includes gender-affirming surgeries, hormone treatments, and puberty blockers for minors. He also called Kunce out on not yet endorsing Donald Trump or Kamala Harris in the presidential election.
Immigration
Kline said that immigrants in the U.S. are less violent than its citizens and that it’s citizens who are responsible for fentanyl being brought over the U.S.-Mexico border. Young stated that we need legal immigrants because they’re important, but that we also need secure borders.
Kunce touted his military experience, which includes 13 years on active duty as a Marine and training with the border patrol. He suggested using fentanyl scanners to stop the flow of fentanyl across the border, fully funding the border patrol, and ending catch-and-release programs as examples of solutions—measures that he said Hawley voted against.
“The answer on immigration is to close the border, reinstate the Remain in Mexico program and the safe third country protocols, which this administration tore up,“ Hawley responded. “Now, as to that bipartisan border bill that Lucas Kunce just mentioned, it was a terrible bill; it would have allowed 5,000 people across the border every day. 5,000 before you could close it. It would have increased the number of green cards by an astronomical number, it would have mandated taxpayer funding for illegals’ lawyers, so you bet I voted against it.”
Hawley went on to say that Kunce opposes a border wall and wants amnesty for undocumented immigrants (though that’s not the phrase he used) in the U.S., which he claimed would bankrupt Medicare and Social Security. He also brought up Kunce’s lack of endorsement for a presidential candidate again.
In his rebuttal, Kunce said that he’s not opposed to a border wall, but he doesn’t think it’s the most effective. He stated that he supports the Remain in Mexico program.
“I don’t support amnesty for people who came here the wrong way,“ Kunce added. “I support a path of citizenship for people who came here the right way.”
Hawley said that in 2022, Kunce told a vote smart survey that he opposed a border wall and that in 2022 and 2023, Kunce said that he supported citizenship for “people who are here illegally.”
“He has also endorsed Medicare for everybody,“ Hawley continued. “He wants to give all the folks amnesty and then Medicare and Social Security, which actuarial analysis shows will bankrupt the program.”
Kunce interjected to say that Hawley was lying, and moderators intervened to move on to the next question.
Tax Cuts
Young said he’s “never a fan“ of raising taxes but that tax cuts also need to be carried out smartly so that there isn’t too much of a revenue loss. He expressed support for measures such as increasing the Social Security cap on high-income earners and means testing Social Security. Kline stated that he favors a redistributed progressive taxation and he believes that he’s the only candidate onstage who will push for that.
Hawley said that he supports expanding the child tax credit and that he voted to do just that recently. He added that he also supports eliminating taxes on tips and overtime pay.
“What I will not support is the kind of energy tax Lucas Kunce will impose by ditching all fossil fuels immediately,“ Hawley said. “Not just oil, all fossil fuels. He wants to decarbonize our entire economy for a cost of $4.5 trillion—That’s his estimate. The taxes that will result on for Missouri families are astronomical. The loss of jobs is unimaginable. The loss of biofuels in the state will be devastating. The loss of industry in this state will be unimaginable, and if you think we’re too dependent on China now, wait until he gets his way. It’s nutty, it’s absolutely nutty.”
Kunce said that he supports tax cuts for those making under $400,000 per year and that he also supports expanding the child tax credit and eliminating the tax on tips. He explained that taking care of working people also entails “putting America first in the next generation of energy and manufacturing.”
“Josh Hawley voted against investment here every single chance that he gets, and when he talks about energy and China, he is letting China get ahead by being in the pocket of oil companies, and that’s not where we should be right now,“ Kunce argued. “We should be investing in the next generation because what’s going to happen is we’re going to swap out a cartel of energy play people run by the Saudis, the Venezuelans, and the Russians for China if we don’t make the investments in the next generation of energy. He doesn’t want to do that because he’s owned by oil companies. I think it’s gross, it’s bad for America. It’s bad for America’s energy, it’s bad for all of us.”
Hawley claimed that he doesn’t take corporate contributions and added that Kunce didn’t reply to his point that he will “ditch all fossil fuels.”
“It might be fine for the green energy wackos, but it will not work in the state of Missouri,“ Hawley said.
Kunce said that he means that we should own “our energy future 50 years from now.“
“I’m fine with us extracting it [oil and gas] right now,“ Kunce stated. “The one thing that I want to add to it is I want to make sure it doesn’t go overseas. I think there should be an export ban on all of our fossil fuel so that it stays right here; it keeps the prices down.”
Kline was given the chance for a rebuttal against Hawley’s “green energy wackos“ comment, to which he responded that fossil fuels present an existential crisis.
Inflation
Kline said that we need a price freeze similar to the one implemented by President Richard Nixon in the 1970s to stop corporate price gouging.
Hawley blamed inflation on President Joe Biden’s energy policies and said that Kunce’s plan to “ditch fossil fuels“ would make things worse.
“He says he wants to push us to electric vehicles,“ Hawley claimed. “Do you know where those are made? 70 percent of them are made in China. Do you know who controls the electric vehicle component manufacturing? It’s China. Do you know where we will be getting our energy if we can’t use our own fossil fuels and biofuels? It’ll be China. We will be dependent on the Chinese communists if Lucas Kunce has his way.”
Young said that he agreed with Hawley that the current presidential administration’s energy policies have contributed to inflation, but that the government’s “runaway spending“ in general has also been a cause. He said that implementing broad tariffs and increasing corporate tax rates would increase inflation.
“I’m the only person on the stage who’s been a CEO, who’s run a business,“ Young said. “I understand how businesses respond. When their costs go up, they respond by raising prices and they respond by cutting their own costs. That means it hurts employees, and it hurts consumers.”
Kunce blamed inflation on the CEOs of large oil companies price gouging consumers and share buybacks, which he says he’ll vote to ban as U.S. Senator.
“I just want to thank Josh Hawley for proving my point on China and energy,“ Kunce said. “They are controlling the next generation of energy. That’s why we need to make the investments here, so that doesn’t end up being what’s happening.”
Hawley, like a broken record, repeated his point that Kunce’s plan to “ditch fossil fuels“ is going to make things worse. He also brought up that Kunce hasn’t endorsed a presidential candidate again.
Kunce expanded on his point that CEOs of large oil companies like Exxon are causing higher energy costs, and still did not respond to Hawley goading him to endorse either former President Trump or Vice President Harris for president.
Healthcare Costs
Kline said that we need universal, single-payer, government-funded healthcare. Young said that free market forces have made America great but that reforms should be carried out to ensure that insurance providers and pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) are subject to the same pressures that other sectors are.
“You know, this issue is personal to me,“ Kunce said. “As a kid, my family went bankrupt from medical bills, and we didn’t make it because country club politicians like Josh Hawley were there for us. We made it because the people in our neighborhood, who had no more money than we did, passed a plate down in my mom’s prayer group and brought more food by the house than we could eat. I think that’s wrong. I don’t think you should go bankrupt in this country because you’ve decided to have a kid.”
Kunce claimed to take no money from “Big Pharma“ executives or corporate PACs and said that we need to cap insulin costs, which he claimed Hawley voted against. He reiterated that we need to stop share buybacks.
Hawley said that we need to cap the prices of all prescription drugs, including insulin.
“Lucas Kunce just lied to you,“ he said. “I was one of only, I think, six or seven Republicans who voted to cap insulin prices—We’ll fact-check him right now on social media. I’ll tell you what I wouldn’t do. I would not put illegal immigrants on Medicare.”
Donald Trump’s Tariffs on Imports From China
When asked about their thoughts on former President Trump’s proposed tariffs on imports from China, Kunce cited his experience working under Trump during his presidency. He said that we should have the tariffs but that the revenue that comes from the tariffs should be invested in renewable energy production.
“When I was at the Pentagon, we had a study where we found you can’t make a single major weapon system without inputs from China,“ Kunce said. “That’s crazy. I don’t care what side of the aisle you’re on; that’s crazy, but that’s a result of Josh Hawley’s policy. It’s as a result of his laissez-faire-ness and his ignorance of national security.”
Naturally, Hawley expressed support for Trump’s tariffs on China. He said that they’ll protect American industry and bring back high-paying jobs.
“I noticed that Lucas Kunce just mentioned Donald Trump yet again,“ Hawley said. “He’s got an ad on TV where he has Trump’s name up there and is proud to have worked for Trump, big bear hug to Trump, big kiss to Trump, but I haven’t heard if he’s voting for Trump. I haven’t heard who he’s voting for at all.”
Young agreed with both Kunce and Hawley on supporting the tariffs and said we need to have a stronger stance against China. Kline was the sole candidate who stated a dissenting opinion.
“While the blue team and the red team act like they’re all against each other, here they skipped hand in hand together in all these bad trade deals that have put us in this situation with China,“ Kline said.
Support for Ukraine
Young said that we need to show more consistent support to Ukraine while Kline said that money should be going to our own issues.
Hawley said he does not support continued aid to Ukraine and that we should be tracking every penny of what’s being spent.
“In St. Louis, Missouri and St. Charles, as we sit here right now, there is nuclear radiation in the soil, in the water, in the air, under homes,“ he said. “I think it’s time we spent some money compensating the victims of that radiation, cleaning that up before we spend another penny in Ukraine.”
Kunce said that we should continue to support Ukraine but that we shouldn’t “put boots on the ground“ in Ukraine, based on his experience serving in Iraq.
“You know, there’s a fun video of Josh Hawley—I’ll have the team post it—of him ranting and raving about how Joe Biden is not giving Ukraine enough help and enough weapons and saying that’s what Ukraine needs, that’s what Ukraine’s asked for,“ Kunce said. “Again, this guy, he just flips and flops on everything during election year when he thinks it’s going to help him out.”
Hawley repeated that he wouldn’t support giving a dime to Ukraine until nuclear radiation victims in Missouri are compensated.
“I think [what] we just heard there was a word salad worthy of Kamala Harris, who he won’t say who he’s voting for,“ Hawley said.
“I’m the only person up here who has ever worn a uniform,“ Kunce fired back. “This guy popped popcorn and watched the invasion of Iraq, absolutely despicable behavior. Again, he doesn’t care about people in uniform. He would have us go to war with China, and he doesn’t want to do the right thing here.”
Speaking of popping popcorn, that’s what viewers of the debate were doing watching this drama go down between Kunce and Hawley.
Support for Israel and Palestine
Kline called for a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine and an end to financial support for Israel. Young said that Israel had a right to defend itself against Hamas but that a long-term solution is needed.
Hawley said that we should not condition our aid to Israel nor push them into a ceasefire until Hamas is eliminated.
“I’d also like to hear from Lucas Kunce,“ Hawley said. “Is he going to condemn what has happened on our campuses in this country where Jewish students fear for their lives because of the pro-Hamas demonstrators and protestors who are threatening to kill them, threatening to run them off campuses?”
Kunce replied that he condemned all anti-Semitism and accused Hawley of spewing the most hate onstage. He said that Israel had a right to defend itself after Oct. 7 but that it’s gone too far—A negotiated ceasefire that brings back all of the hostages is the best option for all parties at this point.
“Again, as far as I know, I’m the only person here who’s been in a warzone, both Iraq and Afghanistan,“ Kunce said. “I can tell you right now that killing all of the civilians or having thousands and thousands of civilians dead does not bring about peace.”
Artificial Intelligence
All candidates agreed that artificial intelligence needs to be developed responsibly. Kunce brought up national security concerns that China would use AI to develop complex weapons systems and that the country needs to stay ahead in that race.
Young and Hawley both brought up the dangers of deepfakes. Hawley cited the bipartisan legislation he passed with Sen. Amy Klobuchar to ban deepfakes in elections. Of course, he couldn’t respond to the final question without once again mentioning that Kunce hasn’t yet endorsed a presidential candidate.
In Summary
If you got bored reading this story and skipped to the end, here’s the gist of the debate:
Hawley: Kunce wants to do this, and I think that’s nuts, that’s absolutely crazy.
Kunce: He’s lying. Also, he voted against this, and it’s despicable.
Hawley: No, he’s lying.
Kunce: No, him.
Perhaps because such a large portion of the forum was spent on two grown men arguing like children, a number of topics were missed, such as gun control and education. It was difficult to feel confident in either of the two main candidates, given that they frequently talked over each other and spoke out of turn, to the point that the moderator had to intervene several times.
Hawley asked for the vote of people who are looking for a change, which is ironic, considering he’s been in office for six years already. He could’ve changed things already, but with some of the changes he wants to make, it’s better that he didn’t.
Kunce came off as ingenuine because it often felt like he was trying to say what people want to hear. He’s previously labeled himself as a populist, and it shows. But Hawley’s track record of telling the truth is far from pristine—as evidenced by this very occasion—and at the very least, we can count on Kunce not to vote for a national abortion ban or encourage a national insurrection.
Kunce and Hawley are set to debate each other without the other two candidates present on Oct. 31.
